Hello my friends and welcome back to yet another episode of Watching the Watchers live. My name is Robert Gruler. I am a criminal defense attorney here at the R&R Law Group. We’re located in the always beautiful and sunny Scottsdale Arizona. And today we’re talking about the Ghislaine Maxwell trial day two. We had two witnesses called by the government. We’re still in the government’s case in chief. Remember we finished opening arguments yesterday. And so we are now moving into the case we’re moving quickly. And some people might sort of feel like this happened rather fast. And it did because we were not really involved a lot in jury selection. The judge did most of that over the preceding two weeks, and then suddenly, boom, we’re right smack dab in the middle of trial. And so today we’re going to be doing a revisit of the testimony that came out in court today.
Because again, this is a federal case, nothing is televised. We cannot rebroadcast or record anything. We’re going to be reading a lot and we’re going to do some tangents. We’re going to, you know, just kind of weave in and out of the testimony and then go back and check out the indictment, go back and check out the mind map. See if we can make some connections, because a lot of this is very complicated. This is a case that has been building over the last two years or two decades. I’m sorry. And there’s a lot of different people involved, including a lot of unnamed people that a lot of people speculate are involved. And so we’ve got a lot to get to. We’re going to hear from Larry Wysocki. This is the former pilot for Jeffrey Epstein. Talked a little bit about him yesterday. He came out and started the direct exam.
The government started the direct exam with him and he didn’t get into much yesterday, but he just sort of started. We pick up with him. And then in the afternoon of today’s session, day two, we hear from this victim. Now this woman named Jane allegedly 14 at the time that all this took place. And so we’ve got some interesting sketches. We’ve got some interesting sort of, uh, tangents that we can go on to investigate these individuals. So let’s take a look at day two of the Galena Maxwell trial. If you want to be a part of the show, the place to do that is over at watchingthewatchers.locals.com where we have this form looks just like this. And we’re only talking about Maxwell today. So if you have a question, submit it in that form and we’ll get to it reminder that it is Tuesday. So if I don’t get to your questions, because we have a little bit of a shorter show, I’ve got my men’s group today.
Then we will save it for tomorrow morning. Also, if you’re looking for clips of the show, because we’re covering Ghislaine Maxwell right now, we are going to be clipping this into different segments. So if you say, Hey, what did that pilot say? We’re going to talk about that. It’s going to be in its own clip. If you say, what did Jane say during the cross examination, we’re going to clip that. And so that’s going to be over here, Robert ruler, Esq clips. And we certainly would appreciate it if you’d share that with your friends or family so that they can join in on the fun. Okay. So let’s get into it. Maxwell trial day two, we start with a pilot who used to fly Epstein and Maxwell around. Remember that we heard from him yesterday, this fellow, his name is Larry [inaudible]. And so he was walking into court.
You can see him. He takes the stand he’s. The government’s witness came in today for Ghislaine Maxwell. He was the pilot of the quote Lolita express. And so you hear a lot about that phrase. He started testifying yesterday, but didn’t get too far because the day was basically over by the time, uh, yesterday, remember we had some jury selection problems, which we have a little bit more of that that we’ll talk about, but we also, uh, have opening arguments that took place yesterday. We heard from the government, we heard from Bobby stern Haim, and then we just started with the pilot. And so we didn’t get too far with him. We’re going to start with him. This is the plane. This is the private Boeing 7 27 that carried prominent passengers and allegedly underage girls. And so it’s a nice aircraft and flying, you know, back and forth between the Epstein island down in the Caribbean and your St.
Thomas and those different islands down there. And so we’re going to, we’re going to spend some time talking to this pilot. This is the guy who is connecting a lot of the different dots. Remember that one of the main allegations or several of these are trafficking that Ghislaine and Epstein were trafficking in these underage individuals and that they were also in this conspiracy to bring other people around, to participate in the abuse of these girls. And so you sort of, those two things have to happen in order to traffic. You need a trafficking vehicle. If you’re going to be moving people between international waters and domestic areas, or even domestically cross state, you need to transport them somehow, right? It’s a car or an airplane or something. So the trafficking takes place on this airplane. And there’s also a conspiracy that discourse well underway. People like, you know, uh, bill Clinton, we’re on the plane.
Apparently we’re going to hear people like Donald Trump were on the airplane, Kevin Spacey, and even people like prince Andrew, who we’ve talked a lot about we’re on the airplane. And so it’s sort of seems like there may be tentacles of a conspiracy percolating out there. So that is what’s going on with Epstein. Now, the gentleman that we’re going to follow along with today is this guy he’s over at inner city press on Twitter. He did an outstanding job reporting. Don’t know what his actual name is. He sort of goes by inner city press. And, uh, he, he did a great job today. He’s actually in the courthouse and he’s given us about as verbatim a transcript as I’ve seen out there on Twitter. And so we’re going to follow along with him. And he says, uh, before day two of the U S versus Gulen Maxwell, standing up outside the Thurgood Marshall courthouse, talking about defense, lawyer, stern, Haim, trashing the victims, and those who seem to think what she said, shouldn’t be reported.
We’re going to continue. And so here’s a little clip from him, uh, outside the courthouse this morning, telling us about what he’s seen there, and we’re going to do this. We’re going to poke around. You know, obviously I’m not in New York, not anywhere close to New York. And we have an entire office here in Scottsdale that, uh, requires my attention. And so I’m not at that stage yet where I can devote my entire time to going and sort of reporting on any of this stuff or participating in any of it. So we’re going to bounce around and check in with people who are there. And so this fellow was there. I know our friend, Joe, good logic on YouTube was there. I think he posted a video. And so we’ll see if we can get a report from him at some point as well, but many people are actually down there because none of this stuff is being broadcast. Here’s what he had to say when he was reporting this morning.
Alright, here we are inner city press back at 40, 40 Foley square for day two of the U S versus Galane Maxwell trial. Now, as we live tweeted yesterday, finally, the opening arguments, prosecutor Lira, Pomerantz focused on the story of one of the four victims. Jane, then Bobby stern hand for Maxwell, uh, basically launched, tore into the, the, the witnesses saying that they’ve all been paid by the Epstein victims fund. And they were encouraged to cooperate with the government for that. Now we tweeted it out and some seem to not like that it was reported. I mean, there are whatever it’s a trial, we’re going to continue, continue to report on it. Uh, at the end of the day, uh, the, the pilot Epstein’s pilot, this AUSkey was on the stand and you’ll continue this morning and then be cross-examined and we’ll be there. Can we continue in just a moment, inner city breast. We’re also asking you in about Terra, Mars, still, no answers.
All right. So nice report from him and nice little recap about what happened yesterday. So excellent coverage. I would really encourage you to go follow him at inner city, press on Twitter and elsewhere, and a nice succinct summary of what happened. And he makes a good point here. You know, if you, we talked about this a little bit yesterday, that in this case, there’s really no good guys. As far as I can tell, you know, everybody’s kind of, uh, you know, dirty to some degree, even the victims. And, you know, you can sort of be critical of the victims if they got paid $5 million and they kept their mouth shut and all these, right. You, you can, you can have an opinion on that without condoning pedophilia. Right? You can think about what, what your belief is about the particular actors in this case, without being a sex lunatic, like Jeffrey Epstein, right?
Th th you don’t, you don’t have to, you can disassociate the two. So you can say, you know, everybody in here, like we’re going to hear from Jean. I think she got paid several million dollars from the Epstein compensation fund. Doesn’t that kind of show bias. I mean, can you make that argument if you’re a defense attorney without necessarily being a felon? All right. So this guy is reporting and he’s saying, Hey, you know, we’re getting some pushback. And some criticism that Bobby stern was beating up on these victims. Well, this is a trial where it’s about credibility. It’s about bias. And if somebody, one of them got paid $5 million and that $5 million payment was contingent upon bringing forward a claim under the terms of the victim’s compensation plan, then. Yeah. That’s pretty biased. All right. So we’re going to break all of that down.
We’ve got six weeks to talk about it, and it’s going to be a lot of fun. All right. So we’re following inner city press and they did a great job of covering this. Like I said, can’t recommend them enough. So go check them out. And here’s how he started. It says, okay. It’s day two of Ghislaine Maxwell, inner city press. We cover day one. We’re picking up right here. It starts off with judge Alison Nathan federal judge, before Wysocki, the pilot retakes, the stand he was scheduled for about nine 30 this morning, judge Nathan brings up more jury problems. Oh, unidentified juror. We talked about yesterday. They were going to have travel problems between Christmas and new. Year’s. Remember this was that magical holiday plan that just popped up out of nowhere. Oh, I got selected for the jury. Forgot about that. We’re going to The Bahamas on Christmas.
Maxwell’s lawyer pay Lee Yuca, JIA, silent, like lasagna says, we’d like to know which juror it is, or at least if they are an alternate. So Maxwell’s lawyer, they have all the, they have all the individual jurors, you know, peg. They go, all right, white guy, 37 years old, probably an accountant like him. We have a, this person, demographics. Don’t like that person. So they want to know what juror is it before they can make an opinion about whether they can go to The Bahamas on their vacation. So they’re being very granular. Judge. Nathan says, well, I think I have to excuse the juror. If they can’t cancel or move the trip and they’re going to have to let him go. She says, so she says, I’ll step down. She gets down, up, up, up off the bench and says all rise. So she’s up, judge.
Nathan returns and says, I’ve asked, but it seems there’s no way to change or move the trip. Darn it. So I have excused, juror number 58, other jurors are ready. Please bring the witness into the box. The judge says, Larry Wysocki then comes on him. He’s in the plexi glass witness box. We’re going to see what this looks like here in a minute. And he says, I’m okay from within his, uh, COVID court testimony, bubble Wysocki. I’m good. Don’t worry about it. So, uh, juror 58 is booted out of here. She’s going to The Bahamas for Christmas. Doesn’t want anything to do with the Epstein case who can blame her first witness gets called up. It’s this guy. We talked about him yesterday. Larry Wysocki, Jr. Epstein’s pilot is now in the house and who is doing the direct exam? Maureen comi, James Comey’s daughter. She’s got the first witness assistant us attorney.
Maureen Comey says, uh, uh, your honor, may the witness remove his mask? She says, judge Nathan says, yes, he’s behind 3 30, 5 feet of plexiglass. He’s fine. Call me says, okay, good morning, Mr. Viscosity, what assistance did Mr. Epstein have? Other than this Maxwell, this house? He says, well, there were many comi did Ms. Maxwell have assistance? She did. Can you name some of those? Well, the, there was Kimberly and of course there was Sarah Kellin call me says, is that miss Kellen exhibit is a woman in a bright green dress. And viscosity says, yes, it is. And remember that we heard from Sarah Kellen, Sarah Kellen of course, was somebody who is in our mind map. And so let’s take a quick pause and see where she is located. So when we go over here and we identify Sarah Kellen, you’re going to see there’s a lot of activity on here.
So let’s clean some of this up. Shall we we’ll get rid of these officials, we’ll get rid of these prosecutors. We’ll get, we got the government’s witness, who was their minor victims are over here. And so we’ve got this relationship between Ghislaine Maxwell. We’ll close up those defense experts, the defense lawyers, the issues, and the superseding indictment. And so now what we got is Epstein’s pilot Leary. Paul [inaudible] is a government witness. We see that he has a connection to Jeffrey Epstein was flying him all over the place. And he identifies this person named Sarah Kellen over here. She was a named co-conspirator as part of Epstein’s non-prosecution agreement. In this document, we saw that when Epstein signed this in 2007, he saw her name is right here, Sarah Kellen. So she can not be a co-conspirator she’s she’s precluded from this thing. So she is identified as one of these named co-conspirators.
We now know that. So, uh, we have Larry, the pilot identifying Sarah Kellen. So we’ve got that, that we can mark down and USA comi, uh, prosecutor comi says, that’s this right? This Koskie says the entrance to Mr. Epstein’s Zuora ranch or what’s. This is what she says, what’s this? Oh, that’s the entrance to Mr. Epstein’s Zuora ranch. This is a New Mexico, says there is a triple wide trailer with a foe Western facade. We had a runway and a hangar for our aircraft. So he would just fly right into there. Comi says, uh, how many acres was Mr. Epstein’s ranch? Pilot says 10,000 acres, gigantic ranch. So big that they had their own landing strip on the ranch. And Larry would just fly right in there. They had a hangar, it was a triple wide. They had a full Western facade. There was a runway, there was a hanger with this thing and we would just land right in there.
Interesting ranch. And so I wonder if they had, you know, any unscheduled flights or anything like that, that, you know, I don’t know, maybe, but it sounds like they were set up for that. Now this ranch was something that was depicted in the first sealed indictment that came out against Ghislaine Maxwell. You can see this, uh, and this was what I was talking about this, I think yesterday on the show specifically, trying to find this photograph. This was a picture of the ranch. That was a part of the indictment. And so you’ll notice they have this sort of a garden labyrinth back there. And then we have a big giant piece of property charges come from the USA versus Ghislaine Maxwell. The case is sealed. Now this there’s a new indictment that came out after this. It’s only had the six counts. There was another one that came out after the fact, but you can see 1994 up to 1997, Maxwell assisted facilitated.
All of this victims were as young as 14 years old, and they all came back over to multiple locations. Then when you go on further down in this original indictment, you’ll see, this is under paragraph C. So before we even got to see, we talked about a and B, those were Epstein’s other two properties, which we will talk to. When we hear from Jane. Jane is going to be the government victim who is going to be talking about what happened to her when she was 14. So let’s take a quick look though, and pause on this ranch. Here’s another angle, a picture from the other side, you can see the sort of guy has this like pool on the roof looks very, very nice lot of land, lot of property. And apparently there’s a hanger off somewhere that the pilot was talking about today in court, during the trips to New Mexico, Jane, who we’re going to hear from later said that she spent most of her time here. It was in the middle of nowhere. She recalled the time when she was 15. Someone came into her room and said, Jeffrey wants to see her and escorted her to see him. So this guy is on 10,000 acres in the middle of nowhere in the middle of New Mexico with a landing strip that he just sort of
Has a runway and a hangar for their aircraft where they’re flying 14 year old girls. It doesn’t sound good. Now I recall reading about some other activities that Epstein wanted to complete at the New Mexico center. New York times reported on this back when he was originally charged in 2019. And they say that Jeffrey Epstein wanted to see the human race with his DNA. Yeah, this is a New York times piece. Jeffrey Epstein hoped to see the human race with his DNA written July 31st, 2019. He surrounded himself over the years with many prominent scientists, including several affiliated with Harvard, even people like, you know, bill gates.
He’s a wealthy financier. He’s accused of sex trafficking had an unusual dream. He hoped to see the human race with his DNA by impregnating women at his vast New Mexico ranch. Over the years, he confided to scientists and others about his scheme for people familiar with this thinking told the New York times his vision reflected a longstanding fascination with transhumanism improving the human population through technologies. Critics have called it modern day. Eugenics. This guy, Harvard Steven Pinker. This guy wrote a book called enlightenment. Now he specifically met with Mr. Epstein. I’ve read enlightenment. It’s a, it’s a good book. I don’t know that it’s applicable post 2020 post COVID, but probably regrets that meeting Epstein met with a lot of very important, very sophisticated people starting in early 2000 Epstein told scientists and businessmen about his ambitions to use Mexico as a ranch, as a base where women would be inseminated with his sperm and would give birth to babies.
According to two award-winning scientists and an advisor to large companies of wealthy individuals, all of whom Epstein told about it, wasn’t even a secret adviser. For example said, he was told about the plans, not only by Epstein at a gathering at his Manhattan townhouse, but also by at least one prominent member of the business community. One of the scientists said, Mr. Epstein divulge his idea in 2001 at a dinner at the same townhouse. The other recalled Mr. Epstein discussing it with him at a 2006 conference that he hosted at the St. Thomas in the Virgin islands. The idea struck all three as farfetched and a disturbing. Yeah, there was no indication though that it would have been against the law, New Mexico, 10,000 acres away from everybody talking to, you know, scientific advisors probably had lawyers on it probably picked New Mexico because it was legally feasible to do it and then built an entire ranch.
You can see it again here. Lot of property, not much around it, as far as the eye can see. And yeah, you don’t really need to go anywhere because you just kind of fly in and out once at a dinner at Epstein’s mansion. Mr. Linear said, he talked to a scientist who told them that Epstein’s goal was to have 20 women at a time in pregnancy at his 33,000 square foot, Zuora ranch, tiny town outside of Santa Fe. Mr. Landwehr said the scientist identified herself as working for NASA, but doesn’t remember who it is. He’s got NASA scientists working on his, um, eugenics plan. According to lanyard, the NASA scientist said Mr. Epstein had based his idea for the baby ranch on accounts of the repository for germinal choice, which was to be stocked with the sperm of Nobel laureates. He wanted to strengthen the human gene pool. Mr. LAN, your virtual reality creator said that he had the impression that Mr. Epstein was using the dinner parties, where some guests were attractive women with impressive academic credentials to screen candidates to bear. Mr. Epstein’s children did not hide his interest in tinkering with genes and permit perpetuating his own DNA. One adherent of transhumanism said that he and Epstein discussed interest in cryonics. He wanted it to be frozen and brought back to life. He told one person, he wanted his head and his penis to be frozen.
Okay. So that’s Jeffrey Epstein and he’s flying all over the world with all these leaders, presidents, princes actors, scientists, Harvard scholars, NASA individuals. All right. So we now know what’s going on in New Mexico. Let’s go back to the pilot. So they say, so you were flying people to a private hangar in a private ranch, 10,000 acres away from everybody. Okay. Did you ever go inside, says comi never go to the main residence she asks. He says, yup. Uh, to pick up luggage to stall electronics. Mr. Epstein was a real audio file. Get a home theater with the dropdown screen. It had a little family room off to the side. Also call me, says, okay, okay. Forget about the ranch turning now to Epstein’s island. What was it called? He said it was called little St. James. It was a regular destination. I also flew the helicopter from St.
Thomas to little St. James also, you know, more electronics installation. He’s a real, he’s a real audio file. And we’re just installing electronics all the time. I’m just zipping all over the place, installing this, installing that, you know, he’s got a, he likes these movies and he wants to a screen to drop out of the ceiling. Real audio file. So he’s just flying around in helicopters, I guess, hooking up Chrome casts and sound bars for Jeffrey Epstein. Yeah. Okay. So, uh, then Komi goes back and says, how else could you get there? It sounds like you were on an airplane and you were on a helicopter. How else could you get their boat? He says, yeah, boat much easier to throw the bodies overboard on a boat rather than out of a aircraft. But oh, he didn’t say that. Sorry about that. Call me. He says, okay, where did you meet?
Ms. Maxwell? Wysocki says she had a three bedroom apartment. I installed electronics there too. Then she bought her own townhouse. Hmm. Why did you go there? Uh, luggage. He says, so this guy is a private jet airline pilot. Who’s flying around some of the most powerful people in the world and he’s also hauling luggage and then installing electronics everywhere else that he goes, all right. Komi says, did Ms. Maxwell ever fly the helicopter? He says, yeah, many times. And what are these photos? He shows. Well, that’s Mr. Epstein in front of his plane. Plane is black Epstein standing in front of it in a yellow windbreaker with a smile. Nice photo comi says for Mr. Epstein, did you ever fly to traverse city, Michigan? He says, yeah, yeah. It must’ve been summer or fall. You know, cherry season call me. He says, where did you pick up his luggage?
He says, oh, and the interlocking school of music, you know, the center for the arts. Hm. Call me says, okay, well, I offer into evidence. This stipulation that the dates of birth of these individuals are correct. We are submitting these under seal. So those must be the birth certificates of everybody else. Uh, let the jurors pick up the binders under their chairs to see the [inaudible]. I’m sorry to see the sealed exhibits, but don’t open it. Okay. So we’re going to stipulate that judge Nathan says, and don’t put them on the screen paper only pause. I need glasses. She says, okay. So Komi then carries on and says, okay, Mr. Wysocki, we’ve got government exhibit number 12. Here is this the name of the female singer? You remember being a passenger on Mr. Epstein’s plane?
This is the name of the singer. He says, yes, it is. Yeah. That’s her. And Comey says, okay, well, we’re going to call her Jane. Now, remember that in this case they are victims. We have pseudonyms. We have a lot of security concerns. The judge has even said that the sketch artists can’t draw their faces, which is what we’re going to see here in a minute. And so we are going to be calling individuals, Jane. So we have this pilot now and he’s laying some foundation. He’s traveling back and forth. He’s zipping all over the place, hooking up Chrome, crack casts and soundbars and 4k TVs, which can be so finicky. If you’re a multi-billionaire and you know, he’s just out there, you know, setting up, uh, townhomes and things like that for Ghislaine Maxwell and Jeffrey Epstein. So now he is also going to be telling us, there’s this person that we recognize her name is Jane.
How did you meet her? He says, Mr. Epstein brought her to the cockpit and she had piercing. He says, powder blue eyes. Oh, that’s nice. It says, do you remember Virginia Roberts? And he says, yeah, shorter woman, dirty blonde hair. And comi says, okay, well then there you go. Nothing further. So he comes in and he asks specifically, no, that was called call me leaves. Nathan says you may cross examine them. We get Christian everday. Okay. So Maxwell’s lawyer now. Christian ever Dell is up next. Now I think I, yeah. Okay. So here is an image of what that looks like. So this is the same scene. This is an image I think came over from Bloomberg. And so Bloomberg has us, uh, showing the pilot over here in the right. We see the judge and you can see his facial expressions are pretty clear. We see an image.
This image looks like it is Ms. Kellan, who was over on the, uh, chart that we just showed the mind map. They were talking about her. She was the woman in the green pilot. We can see his facial features. Judge certainly looks like judge Nathan. And over here, we’ve got Christian ever. Dell, Christian, ever. Dell is going to be for the defense. And you’re going to notice kind of what’s happening here. So you notice the Christian ever Dell’s male. He’s going to cross examine the male. Let’s see if that same pattern holds up. When we get to the Jane victim pattern. Okay. So Christian evaled ever Dell now stands up. He’s going to be interviewing Larry viscosity and you can see testimony starts like this judge. Nathan says, okay, you’re up now? Prosecution has rested. Mr. Ever Dell, you may cross examine Maxwell’s lawyer. Christian ever.
Dell now takes the podium and says, uh, uh, Mr. Pilot, you started working for Mr. Epstein with Dave Rogers, correct? Yes. And he let you use the restroom. Yes. Like I need to now he says, pilot says, um, yeah, yeah. He let me use the restroom then just like, I need to use it now. Judge Nathan says, all right. Okay. It looks like it’s time for our mid morning break. Their wise guy ever Del says one last question. Before we break, uh, did you walk through the cabin? He says yes. In the Gulf stream. Okay. Take a break. All rise. Jury is now going to be taking a break. Judge goes back into her chambers and we can pause for a minute. We can do a recap. Government brought forward. Larry Visclosky Epstein’s pilot. He’s basically testifying flying all over the place, doing all sorts of weird stuff, electronics flying 10,000 acres, uh, to a ranch secluded in 10,000 acres in a small town outside of Santa Fe, New Mexico, lot of activity from him.
But he leads us into the next victim, which we’re going to get to in a minute. But before we get there, it’s right for cross-examination. The defense now gets a crack at him. And so Christian ever Dell comes out and he’s saying, all right, so you sort of, when you were on that airplane, uh, you, you were able to walk around the gallery, then you sort of went and use the restroom and things like that. Right? Okay. Now we’re going to take a break. So the court has a break and then we come back, judge Nathan, who is very particular with timeliness, which I absolutely love about her. Uh, she stops it at like five o’clock on the money, starts it at right on the time it says, uh, uh, jurors. I hope you had a pleasant and timely break jurors. Now you may proceed. Maxwell’s lawyer ever, ever Del he’s back up. And he goes up to Mr. [inaudible], who had to urinate badly and says, oh, I’m Mr. Viscosity. I trust you’re feeling better, sir. Viscosity says much better, much, much better. Thank you, Everett. I’ll continue. So you walked through the Gulf stream to use the restroom, correct? Yes, I did. If Mr. Epstein were engaging in sex acts with underage girls, he probably would have told you not to leave the cockpit, correct? Objection. It says the prosecution.
Why would they object while it’s kind of calling for speculation? Right? If Epstein is saying, I’m sorry, if the defense is saying ever Del saying if, uh, if Epstein were, you know, doing cartwheels back there with underage minors, he’d probably say, uh, you know, don’t come out of the cockpit, hang a tie or a sock on the, on the door or whatever, you know, it’s not something that he would want you to see, right? So he would preclude you from coming out and, and ever Dell says that makes sense. Doesn’t it? Prosecution says you can’t speculate that you can’t speculate about what Epstein wanted or didn’t want you can’t presume. Judge Nathan says, overruled. Yeah. Uh, so you’re going to answer that question. You’re allowed to go down that line of questioning. Judge Nathan says, overruled. Wysocki says, yeah, correct. If he were engaging in sex acts, he would have told you not to leave.
Right. Right. Ever Del says, okay, so this was before cell phones and you were using beepers, right? Yes. I’d recognize Mr. Epstein’s number. And you’d mostly hear about flights from Glenn if she was going to be on them. Right. And mostly he says, so former president, bill Clinton flew on the plane also isn’t that right? Pilots says, yeah. Whenever Del says, and you were told to clean up, which is, sounds just like an awful task after Clinton flies on it, but all right. Uh, and he says, yes, you were told to clean up. Yes. Defense says, but some passengers you were never told the names. Right? He says, yeah. Correct. Continues. Ever. Dell says, I’m going to ask you about a few specific flights. You mentioned interlock in the art center. Did you know that Epstein himself attended the summer camp when he was a child? Uh, no. I, I was not didn’t know that on your flights to Interlochen wasn’t it’s hack Perlman on one. No. Yeah. He was an Epstein. Had a cabin there too, right? Yes he did. And you flew Mr. Epstein to Columbus, Ohio, Ohio to see Les Wexner, right. Pilot says yes.
And he says, and the women were calling Jane here. You knew her real name, right? I do. Yeah. And beyond the, a striking blue eyes that you said that she has, you said that she had large breasts also, right? Wysocki says, well, she was a mature woman. She was a mature woman. This is what he said in court today. This guy’s got some spunk to him, goes on. Ever Dell says, uh, I’m sorry, we’re having a choreography issue. Um, can we move it past this issue without sending the jurors back into the jury room? So something happened there ever Del says, yeah. As long as we can return to it, judge Nathan says like, we’re just going to take a five minute break. Now, all rise. They have a break jury returns late. Judge Nathan jokes. Well, at least we’re getting your steps in, uh, Evernote. Please proceed. So this technological problem now seems like it has been resolved. Inner city press continues to report. Follow them on Twitter says ever Dell starts. So there were others in Epstein’s world who had the same name as the person we’re calling Jane. Oh, so Epstein’s pilots says, yep. I flew. A lot of people saw a lot of stuff. Didn’t see any sexual activities never was told to stay inside my cockpit.
There were other people who might’ve had the same name as the person we’re calling Jane. Hmm. In fact not Mike, there were others that had the same name. Nice. He says, yes. Everyone says like sealed exhibits. [inaudible] now these are about people. These are names. These are human beings that have different names. They’re all being kept under, under code names. Maxwell’s lawyer ever Del says, are you familiar with prince Andrew? You know that guy over there from England Ms. House. He says, yeah. And he flew on Epstein’s plane too, right? Yeah. He did. Maxwell’s lawyer says, are you familiar with Annie farmer pilots as I’ve heard the name, but I don’t know of any record ever. Dell says, all right, well let’s put up LV and L LV five, which must be exhibits. Mr. Wysocki, do you see the documents with the names? Yes. He says, okay.
So they go down, they lay some founder. Okay. Admitted under seal. So those are some records about LV for LV five. Don’t know what they are, but they’re admitted under sealed. And they’re asking the pilot about them. And he farmer, we’re talking about different names. We’re talking about, uh, basically, you know, duplicate names. Did they write Annie F on there? Or did they write any farmer? Are there multiple people named Annie farmer? Are there multiple people named a farmer? And so you can see what the defense is trying to do here. They’re trying to now sort of show that the, the records, even of these people who were allegedly on this plane, if Jane comes out and says I was on the plane and Jane’s name, as we hear from the pilot matches somebody else’s name. Now you have a question about was the Jane that we have in court is that the same person who actually flew on the airplane, they say it is, but who’s going to place her there.
If we have a flight log that also has, you know, victim a, but victim a is, you know, Annie and we have somebody else named Annie F that we can place there and say, no, it wasn’t that Annie. It was that Annie swapping out the victims. So it continues. Inner city, press reports, uh, ever Dell. He continues. So he now says, okay, the person that we’re calling Kate now, her real name is on LV four. Right? He says, I don’t remember that name at all. He says, well, you mentioned people like bill Clinton, you mentioned, uh, ICH, hock, Pearlman, prince Andrew did Donald Trump fly on Epstein’s plane? He says, yeah. Yeah, he did. Yeah. Yes he did. And John Glenn and George Mitchell, they flew on Epstein plane also, right? Yeah, they did. And Kevin Spacey. Yes. He flew on there too. Hmm. And so it sounds like a lot of people flew on the plane. You can see sort of where this is going. Well, a lot of people flew on that plane. Lot of different names might be a lot of people with Annie F you know, I’m not saying that that’s not the name of the, of Jane here, but I’m just using that name as, as an example.
Like, for example, what if you took Larry’s name? What if you had Larry V on an airplane? If he’s on the log, Larry V on an airplane. Okay. We saw some names that were short like that. All right. So it continues. And we see ever Del says after first staying in a hotel, did Mr. Epstein puts you up in an apartment? Pilot says, yeah. At 3 0 1 east 66th street, Sarah Kellen stayed there too. And the person whose name, we can’t say LV [inaudible] she was there with us. Uh, but not Jane right now did not see Jane there. Hm. So now we’ve got a couple of people. We’ve got Sarah Kellen person whose name we cannot say. Could that be another one of these co-conspirators. So we’ve got Sarah Kellen. Now who was there? Stayed at that hotel, along with the pilot LV [inaudible] we’ve got a number of different people.
Was it Leslie? She was also part of Epstein’s crew. She was his executive assistant for 20 years. Maybe she was there, but there was a question. Is she? I don’t think she is. And there’s somebody else here? A, an actual named victim. We don’t know. Okay. So we are talking about Sarah Kellen. Again, let’s go back, picks up. We saw Sarah Kellen. We saw LV three there, whoever that is, but we did not see Jane. So no Jane ever Del says the green sports car who gave that to Mr. Epstein, the Saskia, the pilot says, well, Lex Les Wexner did. And Mr. Epstein gave you 40 acres of land in New Mexico on which to build your home. Right. This ASCII says, yeah. And he paid your two children’s college tuition. Didn’t hate. Uh, yeah, he did. Uh, he cared about your daughters when they were in college, right?
Yeah. And he says, even when they were younger, ah, ah, that’s a backfire right there. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. He cared about my daughters when they were in college. Yeah. And even when they were younger, like much younger college was like a little old, he kind of lost it. He actually kind of lost interest when they got to college to be fair gosh ever. Dell says, and Mr. Epstein’s ha had back problems and he needed massage massages. Right. This Skalski says, yup. He did. Every Adele says he used 10,000 waves studio in Santa Fe, right? Yeah. And when he met him, Epstein’s girlfriend was ever Anderson in Dublin, right. Yeah. And Ms. Maxwell just worked for him and this, he says, yeah, it seemed that way. It was kind of a business relationship ever Del says, uh, later, whatever personal relationship existed between Epstein and Maxwell that fizzled out.
Right? Yeah. It was in about the two thousands and Epstein brought in others like a personal assistant. Sarah Kellen, right? Yeah. Pilot says, and later Glen was in a relationship with Ted Watts, CEO of gateway computers. What? Wasn’t cheap. Yes. And she introduced you to Mr. Watts pilot, right? Yes. Ever Dell says, okay, that’s a good time for a break. Judge. Nathan says done. We go on a break, jurors, get up. They get to go out, stretch their legs a little bit. We come back in now and we pick right back up. Judge. Nathan says, Mr. Riverdell you may continue your cross examination, sir. Uh, Mr. Wysocki, I remind you, you are under oath ever. Delt picks back up, says, uh, people like to go hiking on the Zuora ranch. Right? Wysocki says, yeah, they do. Every Del says, but uh, since there were snakes, one needed boots, right.
This says, yeah, that would be preferred. Yeah. And you never saw Glenn looking pregnant, did you? No, I never did. And go, go and seem like a nice person to you. Did she not viscosity? So yeah, she did. And you have two daughters and you let them ride horses with Ghislaine right? Yeah, I did. Okay. And you saw nothing in 30 years that made you think that Epstein was an abuser, right? I did not ever Del says nothing further closes that out so we can see exactly what’s happening here. Pretty obvious, pretty transparent than ever. Dell is trying to show that this guy, Lawrence, Paul Wysocki, the guy who’s flying around Epstein and Maxwell was pretty cozy with these people. In fact, had them, uh, riding horses with his daughters. Glenn Maxwell was you frolicking around in the grassy Meadows, soaping soaking up the morning, Dew.
So she’s clearly not somebody who’s a deranged pedophile. This is the government’s own witness. Larry Paul comes out, uh, and he gives the defense a lot of stuff here. He says specifically, I never saw anything bad. 30 years, no issues there. Uh, Epstein was very loyal, actually gave me 40 acres of land. I put my home on there, put my daughters through college. I installed so many Chromecasts at his various properties. It’ll make your head spin and a Google home wizard. So now we are bringing this expert or this pilot, somebody who was sort of intimately involved and he doesn’t give us a whole lot. Other than, you know, Glen never looked pregnant. Uh, if there were snakes, one needed boots, whatever that means. We get some interesting questions from him. A lot of weird stuff going on here, a Zorro ranch, 10,000 acres in the middle of nowhere, but he doesn’t, you know, lay the hammer that he was frequently told, you know, not to go back in that one room on the airplane, nothing like that at all.
Prosecution is essentially using him to get a lot of this admitted. So photographs and things admitted so that we can hear from the next witnesses who come out before we check in, we’ll see, uh, government comes back out, Maureen comi comes back for a redirect, says, did you let your 14 year old daughter massage Mr. Epstein? I did not. He says nothing further. And we can call our next witness Jane, which is a pretty good one there from Mr. Comey, Mrs. Comi or miss Komi don’t know what’s going on, but Ms. Komi comes out and kind of drops the mic on that one. I like that. You know, the, the defense came out and said, he’s a great guy. You know, uh, riding horses, frolicking in the hay with Ghislaine Maxwell. And uh, then they come out and comi says, yeah, but you know your daughters, they ever go into Epstein’s little massage room.
No they didn’t. No, father’s going to cross that line. Izzy. So well done from combing. We get a little bit more testimony over here from the daily mail, just to kind of fill in the blanks, uh, says, uh, talking about Donald Trump flying on Epstein’s private planes says, I certainly remember president Trump, but not many people associated with him said that Trump’s flights happened before he was president, obviously viscosity also confirmed president bill Clinton, prince Andrew, Kevin Spacey, all aboard the planes. He added that. He was asked to clean up after cleanse flight, but did not go in detail on that. This said that the doors of the cabin, uh, planes were always shut and no way of observing what was going on, but Epstein didn’t him not to come out. The famous names came up in the context of whether viscosity knew who was flying on the plane during cross examination ever Dell asked, are you aware that the duke of York he’s the son of Quint queen Elizabeth too, of England.
They fly on Epstein’s plane. Yeah. Do you recall the first time he flew on the plane? No. Earlier ever Dell asked if he knew the names of other people, uh, president, bill Clinton flew on there a few times in the two thousands. Yeah, he did. You might be told that information in advance. So you might make sure that the plane was looking nice, right? Like for special catering and stuff like that. He says, yeah, sure. Also have Lex Les Wexner, founder of the limited owns Victoria secret. This Koskie said that the doors between the cockpit and the passenger cabin were closed, but said that he could go in the back whenever he wanted to use the toilet, never saw any sexual activity. Oh, very, very interesting. So here’s some photographs of all these people, of course involved, uh, prince Andrew’s name on flight logs came under fire.
He was spotted taking a stroll through New York with Epstein, following his prison term Epstein already had been to prison for, uh, these types of offenses and prince Andrew then just goes and jumps right in after he got out of prison. I here’s the one with Trump, Donald Trump flew on the plane accordingly to this article. The pilot revealed on the witness stand. This is then back in 1997. Here is bill Clinton and Ghislaine Maxwell there. Board a plane to Africa, got his arm on the shoulder of a smiling Ghislaine Maxwell. So we’ve just got a lot of people that Epstein palled around with, for quite some time day two of the Ghislaine Maxwell trial. Next up we’ve got our very first victim. Her name is Jane. This is what the scene looked like in court. You can see Ghislaine Maxwell down there. Bottom left, judge, Alison Nathan, and the victim Jane.
It’s a pseudonym. And you could see the faces is actually quite blurred out. No details there, uh, much like we can see in Glenn’s face. And judge Alison, we got a us district court Southern district of New York right there in the middle of the screen. And so this is the government’s first victim. We just finished with testimony from the pilot, Larry. And he was telling us that he recognizes some of these names and the government is now calling their first victim. Let’s listen in once again, we’re following from inner city press who live tweeted the whole series of events today. This time, the direct exam I’m being told is, is being conducted by Alison Moe. Or I, I looked this from a couple of different sources. So I think that he was just copying and pasting comi here. I think it’s Alison Mo, who did the direct exam of this witness.
So just bear that in mind. So it says, miss Moe is now up. And that’s about the only picture. I think that exists of this woman on the internet, but we did find one of her. And so, uh, Komi says, no, it’s not comi. It’s Mo Mo says, we call our next witness. Uh, Jane is going to be her name, judge Nathan chimes and says, I order the sketch artist, not to accurately depict the witness. And of course they did. You can see Jane’s face. You can’t see anything. There might be a brunette who knows, uh, comi says, what is government exhibit number 12? It’s under seal. And Jane says, oh, that’s my birth certificate. So they’ve got there that birth certificate issue. It sounds like worked out a little bit. We had that on our issues list in the mind map prosecutor, Moe says, how old were you when you first had sexual contact with Jeffrey Epstein? She says 14.
Who was in the room? Ghislaine Maxwell. Do you see her here? Yes. There. And a sort of beige turtleneck prosecutor Mo uh, let the record reflect that Jane has identified the defendant. So reflected most says, what type of work did your father do? Jane Jane says he was a musical composer. He died of leukemia. His employer had canceled his health insurance without him knowing we essentially went bankrupt and had to move out. It sounds like easy prey. Most says when you were at Interlochen, did you meet a couple after she moved out? Jane says, yeah, the woman, she had a dog and the man said that they were big benefactors at this school. They asked her my mother’s phone number. It was a landline back then. Prosecutor Mosa. When you visited, what do you remember about spending time at the pool? Well, all of them, there were four women and Glen was there all topless. Some of them were naked. I was shocked. I hadn’t seen that before Maxwell would ask me if I had boyfriends. I’m 14 prosecutor. Did Epstein begin to pay for things for you? Yeah. Voice lessons and clothes and things for school. And did Ms. Maxwell give you some advice?
And she said, yeah, that if you eff them, you can always ask them. They’re sort of grandfathered in. I didn’t know what it meant that if you F them, you can always F them sort of grandpa. I didn’t know what that meant. Prosecutor says, well, what did they tell you about their social circle? Jane says, oh, Donald Trump, you know, bill Clinton, people like Mike Wallace. And how was the house decorated? It was arts and their sculptures and pictures of famous people. Presidents. I thought some of the art was odd naked women and creepy animals and things. Jane, once again, as a pseudonym says, Epstein took me into the pool house. He proceeded to on me. Then he went into the bathroom and cleaned himself and acted like nothing happened. I’d never seen that before. Do you keep spending time with him and them? She says, yes.
Jane says that Epstein masturbated again. Galane was rubbing on him and kissing on him. And how old were you? Prosecutor? Moe says 14. Hm. And what was Ms. Maxwell’s demeanor like when all this was happening, Jane said she was very casual. Like this was entirely normal. I was confused when you’re 14, you have no idea what is going on. And did Jeffrey Epstein touch you? Yes, he did everywhere. And did you touch Mr. Epstein? Pause everywhere. I’m sorry to ask you this, but did he use sex toys? Yes. Like those back massagers, they were painful. He did it anyways. Did Maxwell touch your body? Jane says yes, she did. And how often did these things happen? Prosecutor Mo says every time I visited his house. Did you travel to his other homes? Yes, I did. Okay. We’ll get back to that. When other people were present, uh, tell me this, how did the incidents start?
Jane says Jeffrey would say to follow him, follow him where back over to his bedroom or to the massage room. He would get on the massage table. And it would sort of turn into this orgy. How often was Maxwell present? I, you know, Jane says I can’t give a precise number. Uh, during the incident, when you were 14, was Maxwell in the room, Jane says, yes, she was when you were 14, when you were 15 and 16, how many times did you travel with them? Apstein and Maxwell about 10 times. She says New York city and New Mexico on Jeffrey’s plane. And what kind of artwork did they have? It was weird, you know, animal heads and naked women and orgies. It didn’t seem very unusual at this point. And how did you feel in the New York house? Jane says, I felt someone was always watching you.
This is the New York house. As you can see, there was a massage room in this building, same building that we saw in the original supersede, the original indictment, the sealed indictment that came out when Glen was officially, uh, originally being prosecuted. It’s a multi-story private residence. Upper east side of Manhattan Maxwell for many years, apparently was participating in that. Another one of the locations that Jane tells us about is this location, Palm beach, Florida, 1993. She says, sort of described it as, you know, being 12, going on 13 father died of leukemia. So Epstein sees a victim and sweeps on in again, another photograph from the original indictment. So they’re just walking through the indictment. Step-by-step we go back to the testimony. Alison Moe, I think is still doing the cross, says what would Epstein ask you to do? Jane says a straddle is face to pinches nipples.
Were there times when Maxwell was present? Yeah. In the New York house, where did this happen? Well, it was in the massage room. Jane says, and on the trip to New Mexico. Where did you spend most of your time there on the ranch. You know, it was in the middle of nowhere. And did anyone come into your room? Yeah. Someone came in and said, Jeffrey wants to see you. And they escorted me to see him. Jane is now sobbing in court, says I did not want to go see him. Who told you Epstein wanted to see? You don’t know. I had to fly back to Florida to go to school. I took a commercial flight, but I was only 15 and I didn’t have a driver’s learner’s permit. So I couldn’t get on the flight back to Florida having no ID. I freaked out, but, uh, Maxwell helped me solve it. She talked to someone and I got on the plane. What was your home life like at the time, while we were losing our home, we moved into a pool house. She tells the prosecutor. Jane says my mom was enamored by the idea that these affluent people were taking an interest in me. Maxwell’s team says, objection, that’s hearsay.
They’re saying that’s an out of court statement. Objection, you can’t talk about that. Prosecutors respond. They say it’s for the effect on the listener. Judge Nathan says, all right, calm down, everybody. You may ask that question, but not what the mother said. Us attorney says, can we approach judge prosecutor? Judge Nathan says, well, the jurors snacks are here. Let’s take a 10 minute break. Prosecutors are quite aggressive in this case. They don’t want that to be the final answer. Can we approach is what they’re asking. The judge issued a ruling and said, you may ask that question, but not what the mother said. Start over us. Attorney said, oh, we’re not happy with that. Can we approach judge? We don’t want to debate this with you right in front of the jurors. Can we come up and talk to you about this? The prosecutors say this and judge says, hold on. No, it’s fine. Snacks are here.
Go get your hot pockets jurors and come on back in 10 minutes. So they probably, you know, leave at that moment. And then they address it once again, talking about the affluent people and why this woman’s mother Jane’s mother might have been interested in sort of turning her over to Epstein and Maxwell. So they go and they have a break. Meanwhile Ghislaine you can see her in her beige outfit as detailed by this artist says she didn’t react to any of the women’s testimony, including when Jane pointed her out in court to identify her. So Glen Maxwell just has a poker face and she’s carrying on as she should. So the break comes back. Testimony comes back and it sounds like they’re going to be able to get that, answer that question in. So remember the defense objected. They said they can’t ask about her mother and what her mother said, but we come back and they start back off with that question.
Uh, what does your mother say? Says mismo. Jane says, well that I should be grateful for their attention. A lot of people here have been asking, where are the parents of these women? Where have they been here? You have an answer. Very poor family. Mother was doing cartwheels. Oh, they’re going to give you money and pay for college. And I don’t have to worry about you. And you can fly all over the country on airplanes. Not my problem. Sounds great. A prosecutor says, did you tell your siblings about the abuse? No, I didn’t. I was ashamed. I had a manic, depressed mother who didn’t know how to cope. It seemed hopeless. She’s sobbing. Now in court. Jane says, I spoke to my school guidance counselor, who then called my mother. My mother told me, says, you don’t talk about what happens at home and embarrass us. You keep your mouth shut. Family business is family business. Don’t tell your guidance counselor about any of this stuff.
Line of questioning continues. Mo says, uh, Jane, what kind of work do you do now? Why don’t Jane? So I’m still an actor. I got work in LA, but I didn’t know how to trust or how to reciprocate. When did you stop being in touch with Epstein in 2002, I fell in love with someone. Jane says, Epstein kept calling me and saying that he wanted to see me, that I needed to be grateful to him, that my mother was living in one of his apartments. Do you want me to continue? She says, was that the last time? Yes, it was. Jane says and later, did you tell the man I’ll call a Matt about Epstein? Yes. Not in detail, but I did. And by the, then you saw Epstein on the TV all the time. He had been arrested. Did the FBI interview you in September, 2019?
Yes, they did. And it starts from there. We get another little snippet of the testimony from this exchange. Jane said that she was confused by the exact relationship between the two of them thought they were married, talking about Epstein and Maxwell thought that they were married. So the Maxwell was about the same age as her older sister Mo says, how old were you when you first started spending time with them? 14. She says early incident, which left Jane shock was that incident by the pool where they were out there. Topless never saw that before Jane described Maxwell as being a bit odd and quirky, but not, you know, she used to tease me, but she was nice. Jane said, I think she may have said I’m like an older sister to you at the time Jane’s older. Sister was 27. Maxwell was in her early thirties.
Epstein also began to give Jane money as she left the house after each visit, which were around every week or two telling her that her mother was having a hard time. It’s not a big deal. Epstein began by, uh, by, uh, used to buy Jane clothes and other things. And we already heard about that quote. So, uh, sort of a different take a different angle. We go back to inner city press. We go back to May, 2019. Remember Epstein is, is now dead. Jane says, did you Sue Ghislaine Maxwell? Yes I did. In 2020 Hmm. Memory. When we were talking about gage gross grew its number. He was suing the city of Kenosha, $10 million. We talked about his bias in that case saying, seeing the same arguments here. Did you Sue Ghislaine Maxwell? Yes. In 2020 and the Epstein’s victims fund. Yeah. They awarded me $5 million of that. I got approximately 2.9 million. Wow. Uh, what the verdict in this case impact that says the prosecutor defense screams. Objection.
You don’t get to say that they go up for a sidebar and they get to come back. Objection’s overruled. Prosecutor says, what a verdict, your impact that James says, no, doesn’t change that at all. I’m not biased by that money. I’ve already got it. It’s in my bank account. It’s accruing 1% interest annually. Leave me alone. So a verdict would not impact that. Jane says, no, judge Nathan says, uh, jurors, listen, this is not a legal opinion, right? She’s not qualified to give you that opinion. So the prosecutor says, w w w why do you want to be anonymous? She says, well, I work in Hollywood and victim shaming is still the norm. She says, all right. That’s why she doesn’t want to reveal who she is. Prosecutor Mo says, all right, no further questions there. So she’s done. Jane comes out, we learn a little bit more about her $5 million paid out.
She got 2.9 million of that taxes of the worst. Somebody who got involved in all of this, when she was extremely young age, 14 massage room, she traveled multiple different locations in New York and in New Mexico. And she was examined by Alison Mo. We saw that the direct exam of the first witness Epstein’s pilot was conducted by Maureen comi and the cross examination was done by Christian Riverdell. Now the cross examination, not going to be done by Christian Emmerdale. He’s a man. So they’re going to bring out Laura Menninger, a woman, a female to come out and do the cross examination of Jane. Don’t want to bring a man out here to beat up Jane legally or physically. Judge Nathan says, uh, Ms. Manager. You may cross examine. Go ahead. Whenever you’re ready, please. Maxwell’s lawyer Menninger says, Jane, you waited 20 years to complain. Is that right?
And Jane says, yeah, yeah, that’s right. Two full decades before your first report to the police, uh, Epstein was dead at that time. Is that right? Jane says, yeah, that’s correct. Okay. 20 years Epstein’s already dead. Got it. All right. Uh, and says, and you had two personal injury attorneys with you, right? You’ve got Mr. Glassman and uh, Mr. Workman, and you’ve got, uh, the U S attorney. Ms. Moe. We just heard from, and Jane says, yeah, it says up in the 20 years, you spoke to several people close to you, to the person we’re referring to Matt, your sister, Camilla objection says the prosecution, your sister Camilla. Ooh. Who was your sister? Camilla. Now this is interesting. Isn’t it? Because we have a name. Now we have a name. We have Camilla, who is the sister of Jane. So Jane, whoever, whatever her real name is, she might have a person, a sister named Camilla prosecution screams about that.
There’s a sidebar. Now they return Menninger starts back up. Uh, so we’re not going to ask about your sister Camilla anymore. We’re just going to get rid of that name. Just going to delete that. Whoops. Oops. Sorry about that. Um, and manager comes back out and says, oh, okay. So you told one of your older sisters, right? Not Camila your, one of your older sisters and Jane says, uh, yeah. Right, but you didn’t mention Ghislaine Maxwell. Did you? Uh, I don’t know. I don’t know. I mean, I, I talked to a lot of people about this. You told one of your sisters, right? And you didn’t mention Glen, right? I don’t know. And you have four older siblings. Jane says, well, one older siblings and three older, half siblings manager says, show the witness. 35 0 9 through oh eight, please. And these are disclosure exhibits that go up on the screen.
Prosecutors object, very unhappy. They say, ah, judge, we object to this. Don’t show her any of that stuff. She’d just be reading the document. Not in evidence. She can refresh her ma and manager chimes back out and says, sit down there. Young fellow. I’m not refreshing. I’m impeaching, which is a difference to different legal techniques. Okay. You don’t just get to put documents up to people and just say, can you please read from that up there? You got to have a reason for showing people things. And one of them, if it’s refreshing their recollection, they don’t actually get to read from that document. They can refresh their recollection and then testify from their memory. If they don’t remember something, you can show an officer, a police report for example. And you can, uh, do you remember that day? I don’t remember. Well, if I showed you your report that you wrote everything down in, would that refresh your recollection?
Yeah, it actually would. Great. All right. You show them the report. They flip through it. They don’t read it until the jurors or the judges flipped through it. Okay. Spend five minutes on it. Two minutes on it. Okay. Do you remember now? Is your memory refreshed? Yeah, it is now thankfully. Oh, great. Okay. So now tell me what happened and that’s different. What Laura Menninger is trying to do is just put it up on the screen and the prosecution. You can’t do that. What did you want it to just read from the screen? That’s ridiculous. If you want to refresh your recollection, that’s fine. Show her the paper documents, but don’t put it up on the screen manager says I’m not trying to refresh their recollection recollection here, guys. It’s impeachment material. I’m about to bless this person on it. Judge Nathan says, uh, well, you’re not impeaching anybody yet there.
Ms. Menninger, the objection is sustained. Don’t put that on the screen. I’m going to reach the document to myself. She says manager says, uh, you told Ms. Mo that you lived in the same house blank. Objection, the prosecutor screams again again, no foundation. So Ms. Manager is having a difficult time on this one. She’s getting objections left and right. The last one was just abstained. They say, you know, I, I’m going to show you these documents 35 0 9 to double oh eight. And I’m going to put that on the screen. Prosecution says, no, can’t do that. Judge says, yeah, they’re right. Can’t do that. Not going to allow that to happen. So she jumps right into her next line of questioning. All right. All right, fine. Uh, Jane, you also said that you lived in the same house as blank. Objection, no foundation. The prosecution says you don’t have any basis for talking about that at all.
So Menninger says, uh, listen, I, wasn’t going to ask for the street address. I was going to ask if she knows it where the country club is. Uh, I don’t know. Jane says I’ve never been to a country club manager says I’d like to show the witness. Another seal document. Jane says, I recognize my mother’s signature. I recognize mine, but I don’t recognize the document manager says, well, what do you believe this document to be us? Attorney’s objection again. They’re like three for three on this judge. Nathan says, sustained calls for speculation. What do you believe this document to be object?
I don’t know, looks like a magical ticket to Mr. Fairyland. I don’t know what it is not qualified to speculate about it. So manager three, objections, three sustained. From what we can count here, we’ve got the first one on this, about showing the documents. We have another one about the objection to living in the same house. And we have a third one about a question about what she speculates the document to be three for three, over three, Laura manager now manager continues and says, how about this page, judge? Nathan says, so managers, you know, kind of dial in this in a little bit. And remember now that you know, this is, this is not unusual. We’re sort of getting our, uh, sea legs under us. Prosecution is feeling out how the direct exam cross examinations are going to go being very aggressive with their objections.
The defense is now thinking about what can we get away with? What can I ask or not ask? And so you remember in the movie drastic park where the velociraptors are not getting zapped by the electric fence. And that really smart Australian guy says something like they’re testing the fence for weakness. And there’s that ominous music that plays in the background. And you say, oh, those velociraptors are going to be trouble. I can feel it. And it turns out they were, they were, they were testing for weakness. It’s kind of what both sides are doing right now. They’re testing each other for weakness, trying to figure out what’s happening. So manager now continues. She tightens back up. Her line of direct exam says, well, how about this page, judge? Nathan says, you should do this on paper. I always thought that was a better idea. Not the screen. We had a battle about this a couple of days ago. So this is J five, right? And the question is, uh, do you recognize the document? Jane says, yeah, I do. It’s the application to the camp that I went to and manager says, and is your signature on the second page? Jane says, yeah, it’s dated 5, 7 94. So she’s quite young.
She was uh, no, that’s not her birthday. That’s that’s when she applied for camp. So yes, she’s not born in 1994 because this happened like two decades prior to that, uh, before you met Epstein, right? Did you apply for financial aid or scholarship? Let them offer it into evidence under seal. So it’s all going to be offered in there. And judge Nathan orders it in defense attorney says, so, uh, you did not apply for aid. Jane says, yeah, I guess not. I was a child. Hm. So, uh, judge Nathan says it’s five o’clock and we’re going to break. Oh, just when it’s about to get good manager is about to impeach her say, oh, did you apply for financial aid or scholarship? And uh, in fact you didn’t and I got these new documents admitted and judge Nathan, the bell rings five. O’clock says we’re going to break all rise.
Jury leaves. Judge Nathan says no communications on substance here between the us and the witness. In other words, the us should not be talking to Jane. If there’s any conversation between these prosecutors and Jane, that’s a big problem. She’s still under cross examination. So they should not be trying to, you know, paper over any problems with her. Be seated. Judge Nathan then wraps up. We’ve got a couple of things to attend to before the court is a juror for the day. It says we have some matters to take up and the prosecutors come back out and they say, ah, judge, listen, the defense never showed up these documents. They violated rule 16. Uh, and, and Maxwell’s lawyer says the rule does not apply. So there were some documents are fighting over. Prosecutor says, well, if the rule doesn’t apply, then it’s not admissible. So judge says it’s it’s uh, it’s what on page J 36.
How does it impeach anybody? The defense says, well, it shows the street she lives on. So talking about Jane, Nathan says it’s a current photo. It’s not impeaching. And the prosecutor says it’s a violation of rule 16 anyways. So we would ask that the court direct them to produce it defense response as well. Yeah, but, but, but uh, today we’ve seen, you’ve admitted a photo of Epstein’s home today. And judge Nathan says, yeah, but they have their witness saying it’s a fair and accurate representation. So the prosecutor says, all right, we’re going to brief it. We’re going to report on it. Judge. Nathan says, give me your letters on this, on this by 9:00 PM tonight. Now we’re going to deal with the identifying information. So we’re going to speak to the defense about it this evening. Judge Nathan closes out the day, says the witness is on cross.
Do you agree? They can talk to her. Then raise it to me in a letter tonight we’ll confer right after the court date today, we’re going to submit letters to judge by 10:00 PM tonight. Judge Nathan says fine. And then max, Matt is going to be the next witness. So we’re going to finish up with the cross-examination tomorrow. And we’ll, I’m sure we’re going to have a redirect as well. So tomorrow we’ll see that Glen, uh, defense attorney, Laura Menninger will continue with the cross examination. And then probably Alison Mo will come back and do a redirect of the victim, Jane. And then we’re going to jump right into Matt. That’s going to be the next witness that the U S government calls. And so we’ve got a few minutes before I got a scoot on out of here. So let’s make sure we get to some of these questions from our friends at watchingthewatchers.locals.com. Before we wrap it up for the day, let’s see what we’ve got here.
And I’m now having to interface with the mind map as well. I have another moving part. All right. First one up is from Kinkaid says good day, Rob. I was a little paid late posting this. So I added more apologies. The comment from yesterday was about jury duty. If they’re paid too little obligation and honor can suffer. Some have brought up elements of relativism, the sense of a perceived personal internalization and exposure and relevance to a society and observer. Okay. Kincade. We’re going to read that tomorrow morning during that’s a heavy topic. That’s a heavy comment. So we’ll save that one for tomorrow morning. Speech unleash says, why are federal cases not allowed to be televised or rebroadcast? What makes a federal ones different than the state ones with regard to televising them? It’s just the rules. That’s it? Speech. There’s nothing else interesting about it.
It’s just the rules. That’s how it’s been that way forever. And there’ve been, you know, some, some, uh, trial balloons, no pun intended. There has been some attempts to try to open it up a little bit, but not never happened. Monster one says, they said originally the jurors trip was a surprise Christmas gift. It seemed to me that the juror probably went home and was like, guess what, babe? I made the jury trial, but last six weeks significant other was like, oh, this was supposed to be a surprise, but I booked us a Christmas vacation. Oops. I mean, who knows? I sort of believe it, but it is, you know, it is funny that last minute Christmas vacation pops up. The moment you get selected, we’ve got a couple others, three girls. He says, if that pilot is testifying, he has to have some sort of immunity for his testimony who would be stupid enough to testify in this kind of case, unless they had immunity.
I agree with you. I think that that probably has been worked out. Cora says, Epstein sounds increasingly like some famous sex cult leaders throughout history, which is fine. I guess if everyone is of age and consents to it, you do, you write, but he’s also clearly, as you said, a eugenesis. No. Who else was Clinton? When she attended my Alma mater, I’ll leave everyone to deduce where that was. Good comment there from Cora. Thanks for that. We have news now says not really here tonight, but Cuomo was just suspended by CNN. Ooh, well, we’ll have to talk about that one later news now. Yeah, he, as he, he should be fired. Obviously he was using his media resources to help his brother spawn doc says, are we really going to know the truth? After this trial, the dirt bags that use this island to pleasure themselves will never be held accountable.
What an absolute joke. Well, we’re going to see if there is any, any, anything that comes from it. But if you’re hoping for, you know, an end of the global cabal as a result of this trial, that’s probably not going to happen. News now also says the mother was told about what was going on, kept allowing it to go on, made the victim feel like she was special because of how they were treating her. She should be dragged out in the street and dealt with, says news. Now, Wyoming, which I think a lot of people would agree with you on that one speech on Lee says, sounds like the parents of these kids knew exactly what was being done to their children and didn’t stop it because they were enjoying money and favors. The parents should be prosecuted too. From speech on unleashed. There are charges for that.
There are charges, you know, negligent. Um, Naegleria, what’s it called in Arizona? It’s it’s, it’s part of the same statute as the vulnerable adult statute. It’s negligent entrustment of the child, stuff like that. Like if you entrust your child to somebody that you know is going to abuse them, it’s like a negligent entrustment charge. It’s escaping. I’m having a brain freeze on that one. We have another one in the dark in the house as it’s a long one. So if you need to skip it, go ahead. Says, uh, audio file is that they were calling them these days. Fun fact about Zuora ranch. According to this article in 1993, the Zorro trust is shell company completed a purchase of lands owned by members of the king family, a powerful New Mexico, agricultural and political dynasties Oros deal included rights to the Kings of leases on public lands.
Total of 1100 acres rented for 900 bucks a year. I’m assuming that includes the ranch either way. That’s quite a deal on all that land makes one wonder. Yeah, Epstein got a lot of money in the various ways. Very curious speech unleash says serious question. Have you ever done voices for reading for audio books, the way you voice and emotional lies? The trial play by play has done very well on his compliment. That’s a nice compliment speech. No, I’ve never, no, I never have done that or even thought about it, uh, at all. Uh, other than I thought about doing an audio book for my own book, because cause I kind of wanted to do it. I listened to a lot of audio books. I love them. And uh, there was a good cyber Monday deal on a lot of those five bucks and a lot of audio books that I’ll probably never opened, but at least they’re there and they’ll make me feel warm and fuzzy inside.
When I, when I look at my audible. Uh, but thank you for that compliment speech. That’s a nice compliment. We have a three girly says, so the defense decides to try to impeach Jane for not reporting until 20 years later after Epstein is dead. There are more people who keep their abuse quiet for their whole lives and actually report the abuse only 25% of abusers ever face charges because of the lack of the reporting by the victims of abuse. This woman could have been quiet for so long and tell her abuser could no longer harm her or her mother or for any other reason for that matter. That was from three girlies and totally understand that three girlies. And I know that you’re probably not going to like my take on this thing, you know, but I’m a defense lawyer and any time somebody waits 20 years, I’m like, oh, that’s perfect.
Cause it’s 20 years old. And that is just, you know, way too long for that. Uh, I think that, you know, maybe 20 years ago, that’s what this was, I think a little bit more acceptable. But I think as we’re sort of moving into this new generation of the me too, people, you know, sort of the me too movement, like every, like if you hold a door open for a woman, you’re now a sexual misogynist abuser is I think, I think how the rules are now. So that’s, you know, the environment has changed now. Now everybody is like Jeffrey Epstein and Harvey Weinstein for everything apparently. But I understand your point and I understand, you know, it’s a serious issue. Three girly says, yup, he’s suspended indefinitely. Well, we’ll see. He should be, like I said, he should be fired. Monster. One says the feds don’t allow cameras to protect the identity of victims and informants.
All the identities are sealed in this case. How would you be able to film that without exposure to the hidden identities? Well, you could still do. I mean, you could still listen to the audio. You could still do what we did in, you know, in Rittenhouse, we never saw the juror’s faces. You could, uh, we saw it in Shovan right. We never saw some of the younger people who testified the 14 year olds didn’t ever never got their names. There’s ways to do it. We could have done it, but that was it over from watchingthewatchers.locals.com. Thank you everybody for those amazing questions over there on YouTube. We’re going to wrap it up with some of these very generous, super chats. Thank you for sending those in today. My friends Blossey early Yardi says check out the ballot of Kyle Rittenhouse by Clifton Hicks.
I will. I’ll take a look at that. That sounds fun. I will look at that. Thank you blahzay. We’ve got dab. Gangsta says keep up the great show. Well, thank you Deb. Very generous donation. There are no question, but thank you for that. I appreciate you being here. We’ve got CBD x.com says amazing coverage of this trial. Just want to remind you all that our Delta eight products will get you high legally use grueling rich checkout for 20% off CBD x.com. I’m I’m. I’m not sponsoring the show. It’s there’s no official deal there, but that’s just, uh, apparently there is an official deal there, but this is the first time hearing about it. So 20% off, uh, using promo code ruler, that’s a good way to advertise on the show.
Uh, well done. CBD x.com. Uh, well done, not applicable says, uh, Richards is getting blown the F out by all these objections that’s from not applicable. I think that’s a Kyle Rittenhouse joke and we have not applicable says legal question. Can you get in trouble for trying to get yourself dismissed during jury selection to get out of jury duty? Is that a no-no or not? So it is a no-no yeah. I mean, you’ve got a civic duty, you know, you’re an American, it’s part of the game. It’s part of what we do here. As Americans is participating in this and you should do it. You should, you know, we want good people to be on juries, but yeah, I mean, if you get on there and you, and you try to get off there and the judge is not going to be particularly happy about that, and they’re not going to let you get off there.
And if you do something ridiculous, right, they might hold you in contempt of court for violating the rules. So it’s just not worth it. You just might as well just do it. And our last super chat over on YouTube comes in from Beth Cottington in the house. And we just love Beth to death. And she’s so generous on the show. It’s it’s too much Beth it’s greetings Robert and never once she says, just got to say, sometimes two heads are more useless than one Merry Christmas to Eric’s house. Love you guys over at Eric’s house.org. It’s a nonprofit, we’re a part of Eric’s house is doing some amazing stuff. My mother over there just had an interview over with Billy [inaudible] over on a local radio show. And so they’re doing good work over there and you know, it’s the holidays. A lot of people are out there grieving.
They’ve lost people they love. And so Eric’s house.org is a good place to go. If you know somebody who is struggling with grief from a loss, traumatic deaths, suicide overdose, COVID losses, you know, sudden losses, Eric’s house.org as a place to go for that. And that promo is sponsored by the amazing Beth Coddington who sending us over there, wishing everybody a very Merry Christmas and lots of love. And I hope Beth Cottington is snuggled up, bundled all up there, watching the show. Every time we do our monthly zoom meetup, she’s over there and just looks cozy as can be. And so that my friends is it for the show. Speaking of those cozy meetups, we have one coming up Saturday, December 11th, that is coming up soon, boys and girls and seven to 8:00 PM takes place over zoom. We use real or fake names. Pseudonyms. If you want to testify like a Ghislaine Maxwell victim, you’re free to do that.
If you want to blur out your face, you’re free to do that. If you want to keep the camera off entirely, you’re free to do that. But if your camera’s off folks, how are we going to see your ugly sweater? Because it is the holidays. And so we’ve got ugly sweater edition coming up on Saturday, December 11th. So make sure you check that out. Big, new welcomes to test her 16 T we’ve got Lama, Brad. Who’s now officially on the board. We’ve got Kenny, H C F C starfish. 55 is also here joining us for the year. Big shout outs to starfish. Uh, H Kenny HCFC Lama, Brad tester, 16 D and everybody else, you know, you’ve been on the screen before. We’ve given you much love in the shout outs. I’ve got one minute left. And so we’re just going to squeak on through what the final shout outs, but that my friends is it for us for the day.
We’re going to be back here, same place, same time to do it all again tomorrow I have other videos that are now going to be coming out because we’re kind of keeping the show to one topic. So right after this, I’m going to hop on. I’m going to publish a 12 minute Jacob chancellor video update. He got a new lawyer, John Pierce, who represented Kyle Rittenhouse. And so they filed an appeal. I’m just going to make that video public as soon as we hop off here. So be looking out for that. Otherwise I will see you right back here tomorrow. Same time, same place. Check us out at watchingthewatchers.locals.com. Don’t forget to subscribe, hit that like button before you exit on outta here. Leave a comment and share this video with a friend or family member. And that is it for me, my friends. Thanks once again for being here, I’ll see you right back here tomorrow. Bye-bye.